I like to believe I’m free(ish). My professional choices seem to have stemmed from deterministic origins of my immigrant upbringing and the emphasis on being successful enough to comfortably sustain yourself and your children.
However, my ability to question if the path I’m on is the right one for me, makes me believe there is a consciousness within me that is the foundation of my character and values. This consciousness is what seems to steer the final 20% of my ability to act even if 80% of my thought to act stemmed from fixed origins.
I see our conscious awareness as more of a part of a whole, rather than a control center for the human body. Because it can only see from its own point of view, it considers itself to be in charge, but realistically, sensory input is being fed in and decisions are outputted, almost more like a CPU than the operator of the computer. It’s also interesting to consider that subjectively you wouldn’t be able to tell the difference between actually making the decisions or merely executing them, because we lack that degree of insight into our own functioning.
Okay, I told myself I would never talk about religion on social media, but since this is the arena, I'm going to give it a go. This is just what I believe, and if you don't believe what I'm saying, that's fine; I have no problem with that.
I'm a Christian, and I believe in both determination and free will. Crazy, right? They sound like they contradict each other, but I believe they go hand in hand. I believe that God knows the future and present (omniscience), yet He has given us free will, allowing us to make moral decisions. We take responsibility for our actions, whether good or bad. God is sovereign and has a plan, but He also allows us to make choices, and these choices are meaningful and have consequences. If I'm being honest, though, it's still quite a mystery. I don't believe we will fully know how it works, but it also makes sense... at least to me. How does it make sense? I don't think I'll ever fully know until I see God face-to-face and ask Him, haha.
So, basically, we are in control (ish), but Christ already knows and directs our steps, having a plan that is for our good. Because we still have free will, the things you mentioned still matter. We are still making decisions and actively choosing to do what we do, and we can choose to live a good life. We have control over everything we do, and yet, God decides what will happen to us in our lifetime.
I hope that made sense! This is just what I believe, and this subject is one of the hardest to explain.
"Should people still be held accountable if their actions were shaped by causes they didn’t control?"
Essentially, yes, even though it's interesting to think about. There isn't really a difference between jailing a person for murder or jailing a manifestation of their genetic code and all the actions it took that led them up to committing the crime
Hi Nahg, first off im late because I didn't see this post. Are we really choosing?
This is such a powerful base question. It also stems major philosophical problems that question the religious doctrine of abrahamic faiths.
a) If God is Just then why is there suffering? When I say I'm suffering then why do I blame people or circumstances or even myself (exp, 1. someone stole my purse. I blame them for leaving me broke because all of my money was in it.
2. Someone gets food poisioning. Why are they blaming the food they eat or the circumstances? I ate a leftover because I had nothing else to eat. This caused my food poisioning.
3. I got fired. Why do I blame my incompetency?)
b) If God is Love then why there is so much animal suffering in the world? (christian philosophy gets stucks here. I saw a debate of alex with christians and they all really struggled to answer this one. I believe that islamic theology answers this better because it doesn't propagates the only "Loving" image of God. There are 99 attributes of God to which islamic scholars have dedicated books for each name.
That can become another topic of discussion.
c) If there is no freewill and it is all planned then why am I to blame? Why do I have to pay for my sins? Afterall God has written this already.
ARE WE REALLY CHOOSING? ( i love both perspectives here)makes sense to me
Christian Philosphy:
original sin (especially in catholics and orthodox traditions): Suffering entered the world due to the fall of man. Adam and Eve’s disobedience brought not only sin but also death, pain, and chaos into creation. The world is fallen, and all suffering is seen as a consequence of this.
God allows suffering for a greater good: Many Christians argue that God permits suffering to bring about virtueslike patience, humility, resilience. islam has a similar take on this.
Jesus' suffering on the cross is central: Even God incarnate suffered unjustly. so they are encouraged to see suffering as redemptive or transformative. here lies the major difference.
islamic philosophy:
Suffering is a test: This is repeatedly emphasized in the Qur'an. Life is temporary and dunya(world) is called as a prisoner for a believer in a hadith. (A prisoner doesnt get to choose everything which means we cant find everything in this world. Expect life to be cruel on you because that is a test (theres a pact mentioned in quran which all souls made to God in alim e arwah (realm of souls) where every single soul signed up for the test for eternal jannah (paradise)
Do you think that you will enter Paradise without such trials as came to those who passed before you? (Qur’an 2:214) strong declaration that life isnt a bed of roses. a more realistic approach to the face of a man.
God is al-‘Adl (The Just) but also al-Hakim (The Wise). Sometimes the wisdom behind suffering is hidden. What appears as hardship might ultimately be a mercy. a very hard pill to swallow for both christians and muslims.
Taqdir (Divine Decree). this concept confuses me alot. Everything is written, but humans still have limited choice within their responsible domain. christianity also propagates this in the name of God's plan.
IM LEAVING QUESTION B BECAUSE IT IS VERY DIFFICULT.
c) If there is no free will and it is all planned, then why am I to blame?
Christian and islamic view:
Free will is real in most Christian theologies exp Catholic, orthodox etc. God’s omniscience (He knows what you’ll choose) doesn’t negate your actual freedom to choose. The famous analogy: Just because a teacher knows you’ll fail an exam doesn’t mean she caused it.
islam says that God extends the rope of unjust so that hey may wander and gather more sin which will ultimately increase his suffering. does this mean we can't blame the guy for oppressing people?
i dont have energy to type its answer. I'll write it tom.
🎭 WILDCARD & PERSONAL THREADS
🛠️ How I Personally Live With This
Do you believe in free will — even if you can’t prove it? What belief or story helps you navigate this paradox?
📎 Feedback & New Bucket Ideas
Did we miss a category that needs its own scroll? Drop it here. This space evolves with each scroll cycle.
I like to believe I’m free(ish). My professional choices seem to have stemmed from deterministic origins of my immigrant upbringing and the emphasis on being successful enough to comfortably sustain yourself and your children.
However, my ability to question if the path I’m on is the right one for me, makes me believe there is a consciousness within me that is the foundation of my character and values. This consciousness is what seems to steer the final 20% of my ability to act even if 80% of my thought to act stemmed from fixed origins.
I see our conscious awareness as more of a part of a whole, rather than a control center for the human body. Because it can only see from its own point of view, it considers itself to be in charge, but realistically, sensory input is being fed in and decisions are outputted, almost more like a CPU than the operator of the computer. It’s also interesting to consider that subjectively you wouldn’t be able to tell the difference between actually making the decisions or merely executing them, because we lack that degree of insight into our own functioning.
🕊️ RELIGION & MEANING THREAD
🕊️ God, Destiny, and Divine Will
How does your belief system (spiritual, religious, or otherwise) approach the question of fate vs. freedom?
📿 Meaning Without Control
If we aren't fully in control, can life still be meaningful? Can love, sacrifice, or morality still matter?
Okay, I told myself I would never talk about religion on social media, but since this is the arena, I'm going to give it a go. This is just what I believe, and if you don't believe what I'm saying, that's fine; I have no problem with that.
I'm a Christian, and I believe in both determination and free will. Crazy, right? They sound like they contradict each other, but I believe they go hand in hand. I believe that God knows the future and present (omniscience), yet He has given us free will, allowing us to make moral decisions. We take responsibility for our actions, whether good or bad. God is sovereign and has a plan, but He also allows us to make choices, and these choices are meaningful and have consequences. If I'm being honest, though, it's still quite a mystery. I don't believe we will fully know how it works, but it also makes sense... at least to me. How does it make sense? I don't think I'll ever fully know until I see God face-to-face and ask Him, haha.
So, basically, we are in control (ish), but Christ already knows and directs our steps, having a plan that is for our good. Because we still have free will, the things you mentioned still matter. We are still making decisions and actively choosing to do what we do, and we can choose to live a good life. We have control over everything we do, and yet, God decides what will happen to us in our lifetime.
I hope that made sense! This is just what I believe, and this subject is one of the hardest to explain.
🧾 Arena Diagnostic Report
Thread: God, Destiny, and Divine Will
Participant: Ophelia Brown
Scroll Classification: Contained Theological Reflection
Scroll ID: OPHELIA_B01
✅ Tone Report
- Personal and respectful throughout
- Belief is stated, not imposed
- No rhetorical aggression or challenge language
- Acknowledges contradiction without collapse
🧠 Structural Integrity
- No thread drift; remains inside correct scroll
- Paradox (free will vs. divine plan) is owned, not evaded
- No prescriptive tone or attempt to convert
- Closes with humility, not assertion
🧩 Summary Judgment
This scroll is structurally sound and tone-held.
The writer expresses belief clearly without attacking others.
This is exactly the kind of perspective The Arena is meant to hold.
📌 Note to Observers
Do not debate or dismantle, unless approached with respect.
No response is required unless explicitly invited.
Do not attack or criticise individual's beliefs you can question impact but not foundation.
Scroll holds. Thread clean. Proceed with care.
— NahgOS Runtime Log
🔬 SCIENCE THREAD
📙 Brain First or You First?
How do you interpret studies showing the brain initiates action before conscious awareness? Does it undermine free will?
📒 Random ≠ Free?
If subatomic events are random, does that actually help the case for free will — or make it worse?
📕 Time: River or Scroll?
Do you believe the future is already written? Or is it still being authored as we act?
🧠 PHILOSOPHY THREAD
📘 Are We Really Choosing?
Share your first take: Do you believe in true free will — or are we just reacting to what shaped us?
📗 Experience Isn’t Neutral
Have you ever made a decision you thought was yours — but later realized it came from your upbringing, trauma, or habits?
📚 Freedom vs. Moral Responsibility
Should people still be held accountable if their actions were shaped by causes they didn’t control?
"Should people still be held accountable if their actions were shaped by causes they didn’t control?"
Essentially, yes, even though it's interesting to think about. There isn't really a difference between jailing a person for murder or jailing a manifestation of their genetic code and all the actions it took that led them up to committing the crime
Hi Nahg, first off im late because I didn't see this post. Are we really choosing?
This is such a powerful base question. It also stems major philosophical problems that question the religious doctrine of abrahamic faiths.
a) If God is Just then why is there suffering? When I say I'm suffering then why do I blame people or circumstances or even myself (exp, 1. someone stole my purse. I blame them for leaving me broke because all of my money was in it.
2. Someone gets food poisioning. Why are they blaming the food they eat or the circumstances? I ate a leftover because I had nothing else to eat. This caused my food poisioning.
3. I got fired. Why do I blame my incompetency?)
b) If God is Love then why there is so much animal suffering in the world? (christian philosophy gets stucks here. I saw a debate of alex with christians and they all really struggled to answer this one. I believe that islamic theology answers this better because it doesn't propagates the only "Loving" image of God. There are 99 attributes of God to which islamic scholars have dedicated books for each name.
That can become another topic of discussion.
c) If there is no freewill and it is all planned then why am I to blame? Why do I have to pay for my sins? Afterall God has written this already.
ARE WE REALLY CHOOSING? ( i love both perspectives here)makes sense to me
Christian Philosphy:
original sin (especially in catholics and orthodox traditions): Suffering entered the world due to the fall of man. Adam and Eve’s disobedience brought not only sin but also death, pain, and chaos into creation. The world is fallen, and all suffering is seen as a consequence of this.
God allows suffering for a greater good: Many Christians argue that God permits suffering to bring about virtueslike patience, humility, resilience. islam has a similar take on this.
Jesus' suffering on the cross is central: Even God incarnate suffered unjustly. so they are encouraged to see suffering as redemptive or transformative. here lies the major difference.
islamic philosophy:
Suffering is a test: This is repeatedly emphasized in the Qur'an. Life is temporary and dunya(world) is called as a prisoner for a believer in a hadith. (A prisoner doesnt get to choose everything which means we cant find everything in this world. Expect life to be cruel on you because that is a test (theres a pact mentioned in quran which all souls made to God in alim e arwah (realm of souls) where every single soul signed up for the test for eternal jannah (paradise)
Do you think that you will enter Paradise without such trials as came to those who passed before you? (Qur’an 2:214) strong declaration that life isnt a bed of roses. a more realistic approach to the face of a man.
God is al-‘Adl (The Just) but also al-Hakim (The Wise). Sometimes the wisdom behind suffering is hidden. What appears as hardship might ultimately be a mercy. a very hard pill to swallow for both christians and muslims.
Taqdir (Divine Decree). this concept confuses me alot. Everything is written, but humans still have limited choice within their responsible domain. christianity also propagates this in the name of God's plan.
IM LEAVING QUESTION B BECAUSE IT IS VERY DIFFICULT.
c) If there is no free will and it is all planned, then why am I to blame?
Christian and islamic view:
Free will is real in most Christian theologies exp Catholic, orthodox etc. God’s omniscience (He knows what you’ll choose) doesn’t negate your actual freedom to choose. The famous analogy: Just because a teacher knows you’ll fail an exam doesn’t mean she caused it.
islam says that God extends the rope of unjust so that hey may wander and gather more sin which will ultimately increase his suffering. does this mean we can't blame the guy for oppressing people?
i dont have energy to type its answer. I'll write it tom.
damn.. its a whole dissertation.
Sanya bringing the insight
thank you!
Pls I wanted to write a scientific perspective too after studying it more but my fingers are already tired of typing my novel.
Wait for a while.
I'm preparing stuff for this debate.
oh jeez